xenoranger · May 04, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31

I've recently left my guild due to circumstances beyond my control. Although I'm not looking for a guild, I'm looking for a second opinion from a non-biased source. My decision to leave was based on the following in order of importance:

Shady Dealings by the Leader
Although an active member in the guild, the guild leader's favorite past time is to set up skirmishes within the guild. Whoever his team is, he alters the players by having them switch to other characters without notice to the other party(which was originally stated as against the rules). This would give him an advantage over the opposing skirmish team.
The Lying tongue
Anytime I call out a shady dealing by the guild leader, officer, or important member of the guild, it gets suppressed by the leader or staff. Basically, they want to win and be right regardless of the morality behind their case.
The Door Swings 1 way
After receiving quite a bit of requests from others for help, I barely have time to level or do anything with my lower level characters. The expectation is on me to be there and help out others, but when I require assistance, my friends list is generally of more help.
What are friends?
Honestly, I don't really know anyone in the guild. I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine.

Now, I'm not going to put a name to the guild, but it just strikes me as funny since I left quietly and afterward, my wife starts to ask me if I was making threats against the guild. Apparently the leader started telling others that I was sore and started to threaten the guild, which is not true, since barely anyone realized I was gone.

Meh, I think the transient life may be better for the moment, but I'm always looking for improvement on how a situation could be handled better, so if you have constructive comments, I'd like to hear them.

RTSFirebat · May 04, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35

If you were unhappy with the actions within the guild, then it was best that you left. Move on and leave your wife to continue with that Guild if she wants.

bele · May 04, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01

[QUOTE=xenoranger]
[*]What are friends?
Honestly, I don't really know anyone in the guild. I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine.

QUOTE]

That's just enough reason to leave, unless your'e really new to it . If in a reasonable time haven't done them, just go. No biass or regret.

xenoranger · May 04, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Well, I have friends, but they're spread across other guilds. I just joined this one b/c of my wife. I guess it's better if we just play as we want to and not join certain groups based on the fact that we're married.

Nexium · May 04, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09

make a new guild and take you'r wife whith you

Snowman · May 04, 2006, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

[*]I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine.

I'm sorry but....

ROFLMAOBBQ

Oberon Shadowking · May 04, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

If your guild is treating you badly, you have reason enough to leave.

If on the other hand, you guild is treating you wonderfully, but they don't meet your standards, do you have reason to leave? This is an interesting question. Yes, you have a standard which you want your guild to live up to, but at the same time, unless you can say that they really AREN'T trying to get better towards your standards, don't you have a loyalty commitment to them? Are not YOU responsible to make your invite worth the 100 gp cost to the leader or officer?

I suppose this is really off topic, but I'm going to continue ranting anyway.

Being the leader of a small, primarily PvE guild, I've had a TERRIBLE time retaining members. Often, when I see someone advertising "Looking for a guild," and we chat, and I invite them, they leave within a DAY of joining, without so much as a 'No thanks, it just didn't work out.' Perhaps my guild doesn't satisfy all of their needs, but we TRY HARD TO GET BETTER. All the people out there with five second attention spans need to understand, a guild is HARD WORK. There's a LOT of competition between guilds for members, so of course, if one guild doesn't work for you, you'll quickly find another one.

But doesn't the player who ASKS for an invite, sans any qualifying statement like "Must have TS/ do HoH," have an OBLIGATION to his guild? CAN he leave? Yes. CAN he find another guild, probably a better one, quickly? YES. But the fact remains that he SHOULD not. He should do his best to make the guild better, and if it doesn't BECOME better, then his obligation is void. Until one can see that the guild is not making progress, one should be LOYAL. Loyalty in a game might seem ludicrous, but it's not. A game like GW is based around the principles of loyalty. Think about it. Guilds in themselves are tight knit groups of people who share common interests and goals, and who are loyal to one another. There's even a certain amount of loyalty in PuGs, keeping one player from leaving, simply because they're loyal to the group, and the group finishing its quest or mission.

So, were you justified in leaving your guild? Yes, most emphatically. If a leader is not honourable, or if he betrays a trust, the bonds of loyalty are broken, as in real life. If a general cannot command his soldiers' trust, he cannot command them. But I encourage ALL those people who read this thread and who might be considering to leave their guild: Give it a chance.

Thanks for listening!

BloodBrooder · May 04, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Well i started my own guild with my Husband. Its called JK ( Jeepers Kreppers) but it also stands for our first names. Now i recruited a bunch of friends into the guild, but its really small and they are never on lol so really its just us playing and we meet people along the way. Good for you leaving though, its what i would of done. !

xenoranger · May 04, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon Shadowking

If your guild is treating you badly, you have reason enough to leave.

... ... ... <<Abbreviated>> ... ... ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberon Shadowking

So, were you justified in leaving your guild? Yes, most emphatically. If a leader is not honourable, or if he betrays a trust, the bonds of loyalty are broken, as in real life. If a general cannot command his soldiers' trust, he cannot command them. But I encourage ALL those people who read this thread and who might be considering to leave their guild: Give it a chance.

Thanks for listening!

it's not that I have a 5 sec attention span, but it is that when I see shady dealings in the leadership, I tend to shy away from a guild. I've been in 3 guilds so far. (4 if you count the pop in at a friend's request, but I paid him the 100 gp b/c I wasn't going to stick around).

Mostly, PvE guilds interest me most. Primarly b/c I don't play competatively as much as just enjoying the game. My requirements are simple for a guild: I help the members and they help me. It's a trade. If you're in a guild, you need to give back to the guild. That's what makes a guild strong. But when it winds up (like in all 3 guilds) where I'm spending 90% of my time helping others, but the 10% where I request help I get nothing... there's something wrong there.

Please, by all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

Braggi · May 04, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

On the initial post, you were at odds for some time it seems.
Hope you informed your spouse in advance about you leaving and the reasons, so she didn't catch the news in the papers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

My requirements are simple for a guild: I help the members and they help me. It's a trade. If you're in a guild, you need to give back to the guild. That's what makes a guild strong. But when it winds up (like in all 3 guilds) where I'm spending 90% of my time helping others, but the 10% where I request help I get nothing... there's something wrong there.

Please, by all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

I found this almost never works as an unwritten contract, because other players may have another notion here. Some take the free ride. Many people who get dragged through most hard parts of the game rarely appreciate your effort, as opposed to your ingame friends who fight side on side with you. Then there are people who really think themselves open and helpful - but whenever they're on, they're unavailable as their scheduler is already full with group events... RL friends form subgroups in guilds, mostly sticking together...

Either the guild explicitely declares to prefer guildies over externals when playing, has a certain culture about helping e.o. or there is a timeslot for this. Otherwise I found it never works.

On a side note, I find the guild rooster not very informative when looking for someone who might be able to help me out.

Forbes · May 04, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braggi

I found this almost never works as an unwritten contract, because other players may have another notion here. Some take the free ride. Many people who get dragged through most hard parts of the game rarely appreciate your effort, as opposed to your ingame friends who fight side on side with you. Then there are people who really think themselves open and helpful - but whenever they're on, they're unavailable as their scheduler is already full with group events... RL friends form subgroups in guilds, mostly sticking together...

Either the guild explicitely declares to prefer guildies over externals when playing, has a certain culture about helping e.o. or there is a timeslot for this. Otherwise I found it never works.

I'm not sure what you mean by an unwritten contract. But in my experience (with my own guild) there are always people who are willing to help. Maybe they can't be there right at that second you get on (I mean really everyone is not waiting for YOU to show up at a specified time). They are probably doing other things. I think it is really up to the officers and leader to make sure that everyone who is looking for people to help get some. But you can't expect someone to be available everytime you get on (of course this depends on the size of your guild, but my experience is in small guilds, so that's where my coments are aimed).

@OP: I agree with you that it is a two-way street, you help others and they help you. If it's only going one way, then I would find a new guild.

ender6 · May 04, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Let's see...

1) You spend 90% of your time helping the guild out
(at work all day)
2) The Guild Leader has claimed that you are bad mouthing the guild after you left
(the set up)
3) Your wife is still in the guild....
(she's still seeing him)
4) You aren't competetive just looking for a guild that likes to play the game..
(nice guy)

It all adds up...Your wife is having a sordid affair with the guild leader, and everyone in the guild knows about it and that is why they were avoiding you, just too embarressed to be seen with you.

let's see what is that emote again

/adultury

Options:

-sue ANet.

-Or you could challenge the guild leader to a 1x1 match perhaps in the up comming BBQ torunment and defend your honor publicly (plug).

-Start a new char and hang out in pre-sear till it hits lvl 20 helping n00bs out with missions like getting a rez sig, and achieve hero warship from lvl 1,2,3's...

I recommend you try all 3 on for size...

**simply pathetic

xenoranger · May 04, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Obviously you can't expect your guild to help you 100% of the time, but when you need help and everytime you do people are like "Im UW Farming" or "Can't, I'm running" or even "I'm working on this character, ask someone else" it's quite disheartenning. It only Exacerbates things when you're almost always dishing out assistance and you ask once in a while (it's usually once a week) for help from others. I mean, if someone was assisting me alot, I'd return the favor (and have in the past).

Plainly put, if you're in a guild and they're mooching off of you, there's really no point in sticking around.

At least, that's how I see it.

lennymon · May 04, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Play how YOU want to play, if you enjoy helping people out, do it. If you also enjoy just playing the game do that. If when you need help just because noone is there from your guild Is that enough reason to leave? Up to you. If a guild feels wrong to you leave plain and simple. I spent a lot of time searching for the right home, and eventually found something close. Then I began spending my energies getting it closer to my ideal, we all do, just by being who we are. Like ripples after a stone drops in water :P young grasshopper so also do we affect our surroundings by being there.

xenoranger · May 04, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Like ripples after a stone drops in water :P young grasshopper so also do we affect our surroundings by being there.

Nice way to put it.. but def food for thought

Cymboric Treewalker · May 04, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoranger

I've recently left my guild due to circumstances beyond my control. Although I'm not looking for a guild, I'm looking for a second opinion from a non-biased source. My decision to leave was based on the following in order of importance:

Shady Dealings by the Leader
Although an active member in the guild, the guild leader's favorite past time is to set up skirmishes within the guild. Whoever his team is, he alters the players by having them switch to other characters without notice to the other party(which was originally stated as against the rules). This would give him an advantage over the opposing skirmish team.
The Lying tongue
Anytime I call out a shady dealing by the guild leader, officer, or important member of the guild, it gets suppressed by the leader or staff. Basically, they want to win and be right regardless of the morality behind their case.
The Door Swings 1 way
After receiving quite a bit of requests from others for help, I barely have time to level or do anything with my lower level characters. The expectation is on me to be there and help out others, but when I require assistance, my friends list is generally of more help.
What are friends?
Honestly, I don't really know anyone in the guild. I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine.

Now, I'm not going to put a name to the guild, but it just strikes me as funny since I left quietly and afterward, my wife starts to ask me if I was making threats against the guild. Apparently the leader started telling others that I was sore and started to threaten the guild, which is not true, since barely anyone realized I was gone.

Meh, I think the transient life may be better for the moment, but I'm always looking for improvement on how a situation could be handled better, so if you have constructive comments, I'd like to hear them.

Well... it sounds as though you did the right thing. Feel free to check us out... or just tag along with us when you need some help... we are a low pressure lot.

Good luck mate.

Mr Urthadar · May 04, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

Let's see...

1) You spend 90% of your time helping the guild out
(at work all day)
2) The Guild Leader has claimed that you are bad mouthing the guild after you left
(the set up)
3) Your wife is still in the guild....
(she's still seeing him)
4) You aren't competetive just looking for a guild that likes to play the game..
(nice guy)

It all adds up...Your wife is having a sordid affair with the guild leader, and everyone in the guild knows about it and that is why they were avoiding you, just too embarressed to be seen with you.

let's see what is that emote again

/adultury

Options:

-sue ANet.

-Or you could challenge the guild leader to a 1x1 match perhaps in the up comming BBQ torunment and defend your honor publicly (plug).

-Start a new char and hang out in pre-sear till it hits lvl 20 helping n00bs out with missions like getting a rez sig, and achieve hero warship from lvl 1,2,3's...

I recommend you try all 3 on for size...

**simply pathetic

roflmao. I saw that too, but I was just too afraid to say it... lol..

We've actually had quite a few married couples in my guild. It's always a treat when we get adults...

ju

baz777 · May 05, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08

You did the right thing in leaving and best of luck for the future.

Fortunately my wife has no interest in gaming. God, if she was in our guild she???d have everyone tidying out their storage box every 5 minutes and complaining about the dust in the guild hall

xenoranger · May 05, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

I'm so glad I'm outta there now. Not even a day later, the Guild leader decides he's going to take his frustrations out on my wife. It wasn't long before she decided she should leave as well.

Actually, we might start our own PvE guild. We'll see how it works out.

Thallandor · May 05, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

I feel your pain xenoranger, internal politics are often things that kill the guild from the inside.

More often then not, a guild leader should be well aware that his responsiblity to the guild is one of providing the direction, leadership and more importantly placing the enjoyment of the game for its members first and foremost.

Sorry to hear things have taken a bad turn for you and your spouse. I run a international medium sized PvE guild and we been around since august 2005, loyalty and delication to each other has always been how we based our style of play and i understand also what Oberon Shadowking mean when he mentioned players leaving without ever saying a word (reason why i stopped recruiting from PuG/shouts in town) and constantly working to maintain the guild isnt easy at all compared to other MMO games. It is generally hard work. But my personal belief is to find those you can truely call friends to play with either knowing them in RL or over time in game that would share your vision and dreams and would eventually become your officers and the pillars of the guild.

I wish you well in starting your own guild, but if PvE is your thing

Do look us up as well

May 04, 2006, 12:31 PM // 12:31	#1
xenoranger Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2005	On Leaving A Guild I've recently left my guild due to circumstances beyond my control. Although I'm not looking for a guild, I'm looking for a second opinion from a non-biased source. My decision to leave was based on the following in order of importance: Shady Dealings by the Leader Although an active member in the guild, the guild leader's favorite past time is to set up skirmishes within the guild. Whoever his team is, he alters the players by having them switch to other characters without notice to the other party(which was originally stated as against the rules). This would give him an advantage over the opposing skirmish team. The Lying tongue Anytime I call out a shady dealing by the guild leader, officer, or important member of the guild, it gets suppressed by the leader or staff. Basically, they want to win and be right regardless of the morality behind their case. The Door Swings 1 way After receiving quite a bit of requests from others for help, I barely have time to level or do anything with my lower level characters. The expectation is on me to be there and help out others, but when I require assistance, my friends list is generally of more help. What are friends? Honestly, I don't really know anyone in the guild. I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine. Now, I'm not going to put a name to the guild, but it just strikes me as funny since I left quietly and afterward, my wife starts to ask me if I was making threats against the guild. Apparently the leader started telling others that I was sore and started to threaten the guild, which is not true, since barely anyone realized I was gone. Meh, I think the transient life may be better for the moment, but I'm always looking for improvement on how a situation could be handled better, so if you have constructive comments, I'd like to hear them.

May 04, 2006, 12:35 PM // 12:35	#2
RTSFirebat The Humanoid Typhoon Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: R/	If you were unhappy with the actions within the guild, then it was best that you left. Move on and leave your wife to continue with that Guild if she wants. Last edited by RTSFirebat; May 04, 2006 at 01:18 PM // 13:18..

May 04, 2006, 01:01 PM // 13:01	#3
bele Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2005	[QUOTE=xenoranger] [*]What are friends? Honestly, I don't really know anyone in the guild. I'm only there b/c my wife wanted me to come. Apparently they're all her friends, but definintely not mine. QUOTE] That's just enough reason to leave, unless your'e really new to it . If in a reasonable time haven't done them, just go. No biass or regret.

May 04, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05	#4
xenoranger Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2005	Well, I have friends, but they're spread across other guilds. I just joined this one b/c of my wife. I guess it's better if we just play as we want to and not join certain groups based on the fact that we're married.

May 04, 2006, 01:09 PM // 13:09	#5
Nexium Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2006	make a new guild and take you'r wife whith you

May 04, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36	#7
Oberon Shadowking Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: A Midsummer Night (AMND) Profession: W/Mo	If your guild is treating you badly, you have reason enough to leave. If on the other hand, you guild is treating you wonderfully, but they don't meet your standards, do you have reason to leave? This is an interesting question. Yes, you have a standard which you want your guild to live up to, but at the same time, unless you can say that they really AREN'T trying to get better towards your standards, don't you have a loyalty commitment to them? Are not YOU responsible to make your invite worth the 100 gp cost to the leader or officer? I suppose this is really off topic, but I'm going to continue ranting anyway. Being the leader of a small, primarily PvE guild, I've had a TERRIBLE time retaining members. Often, when I see someone advertising "Looking for a guild," and we chat, and I invite them, they leave within a DAY of joining, without so much as a 'No thanks, it just didn't work out.' Perhaps my guild doesn't satisfy all of their needs, but we TRY HARD TO GET BETTER. All the people out there with five second attention spans need to understand, a guild is HARD WORK. There's a LOT of competition between guilds for members, so of course, if one guild doesn't work for you, you'll quickly find another one. But doesn't the player who ASKS for an invite, sans any qualifying statement like "Must have TS/ do HoH," have an OBLIGATION to his guild? CAN he leave? Yes. CAN he find another guild, probably a better one, quickly? YES. But the fact remains that he SHOULD not. He should do his best to make the guild better, and if it doesn't BECOME better, then his obligation is void. Until one can see that the guild is not making progress, one should be LOYAL. Loyalty in a game might seem ludicrous, but it's not. A game like GW is based around the principles of loyalty. Think about it. Guilds in themselves are tight knit groups of people who share common interests and goals, and who are loyal to one another. There's even a certain amount of loyalty in PuGs, keeping one player from leaving, simply because they're loyal to the group, and the group finishing its quest or mission. So, were you justified in leaving your guild? Yes, most emphatically. If a leader is not honourable, or if he betrays a trust, the bonds of loyalty are broken, as in real life. If a general cannot command his soldiers' trust, he cannot command them. But I encourage ALL those people who read this thread and who might be considering to leave their guild: Give it a chance. Thanks for listening!

May 04, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36	#8
BloodBrooder Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: Jeepers Kreepers Profession: W/Mo	Well i started my own guild with my Husband. Its called JK ( Jeepers Kreppers) but it also stands for our first names. Now i recruited a bunch of friends into the guild, but its really small and they are never on lol so really its just us playing and we meet people along the way. Good for you leaving though, its what i would of done. !

May 04, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01	#12
ender6 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2006 Profession: Mo/	Let's see... 1) You spend 90% of your time helping the guild out (at work all day) 2) The Guild Leader has claimed that you are bad mouthing the guild after you left (the set up) 3) Your wife is still in the guild.... (she's still seeing him) 4) You aren't competetive just looking for a guild that likes to play the game.. (nice guy) It all adds up...Your wife is having a sordid affair with the guild leader, and everyone in the guild knows about it and that is why they were avoiding you, just too embarressed to be seen with you. let's see what is that emote again /adultury Options: -sue ANet. -Or you could challenge the guild leader to a 1x1 match perhaps in the up comming BBQ torunment and defend your honor publicly (plug). -Start a new char and hang out in pre-sear till it hits lvl 20 helping n00bs out with missions like getting a rez sig, and achieve hero warship from lvl 1,2,3's... I recommend you try all 3 on for size... **simply pathetic

May 04, 2006, 06:12 PM // 18:12	#13
xenoranger Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2005	Obviously you can't expect your guild to help you 100% of the time, but when you need help and everytime you do people are like "Im UW Farming" or "Can't, I'm running" or even "I'm working on this character, ask someone else" it's quite disheartenning. It only Exacerbates things when you're almost always dishing out assistance and you ask once in a while (it's usually once a week) for help from others. I mean, if someone was assisting me alot, I'd return the favor (and have in the past). Plainly put, if you're in a guild and they're mooching off of you, there's really no point in sticking around. At least, that's how I see it.

May 04, 2006, 06:15 PM // 18:15	#14
lennymon Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle Guild: Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: R/	Play how YOU want to play, if you enjoy helping people out, do it. If you also enjoy just playing the game do that. If when you need help just because noone is there from your guild Is that enough reason to leave? Up to you. If a guild feels wrong to you leave plain and simple. I spent a lot of time searching for the right home, and eventually found something close. Then I began spending my energies getting it closer to my ideal, we all do, just by being who we are. Like ripples after a stone drops in water :P young grasshopper so also do we affect our surroundings by being there.

May 05, 2006, 10:08 AM // 10:08	#18
baz777 Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: South East England Guild: Leader: Lady Hairy Armpits S[mell] Profession: E/	You did the right thing in leaving and best of luck for the future. Fortunately my wife has no interest in gaming. God, if she was in our guild she???d have everyone tidying out their storage box every 5 minutes and complaining about the dust in the guild hall

May 05, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58	#19
xenoranger Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2005	I'm so glad I'm outta there now. Not even a day later, the Guild leader decides he's going to take his frustrations out on my wife. It wasn't long before she decided she should leave as well. Actually, we might start our own PvE guild. We'll see how it works out.

May 05, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27	#20
Thallandor Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2005 Location: Singapore Guild: Seers of Serpents [SoS] Profession: R/	I feel your pain xenoranger, internal politics are often things that kill the guild from the inside. More often then not, a guild leader should be well aware that his responsiblity to the guild is one of providing the direction, leadership and more importantly placing the enjoyment of the game for its members first and foremost. Sorry to hear things have taken a bad turn for you and your spouse. I run a international medium sized PvE guild and we been around since august 2005, loyalty and delication to each other has always been how we based our style of play and i understand also what Oberon Shadowking mean when he mentioned players leaving without ever saying a word (reason why i stopped recruiting from PuG/shouts in town) and constantly working to maintain the guild isnt easy at all compared to other MMO games. It is generally hard work. But my personal belief is to find those you can truely call friends to play with either knowing them in RL or over time in game that would share your vision and dreams and would eventually become your officers and the pillars of the guild. I wish you well in starting your own guild, but if PvE is your thing Do look us up as well